Can the Credibility of NA's Recovery Program Afford a Book Like This?

[trigg]

I'm not familiar with very many locations where members of the public refer drug addicts to NA with confidence in its efficiency as a drug addiction recovery program, but I am very familiar with a growing public sentiment that wants evidence based answers and results, instead of more of the same old excuses they've heard for years.   In other words, I don't think now is the time to rest on our accomplishments as a fellowship and think we can afford an attitude of indifference or intolerance towards spiritual principles.

I just don't think our credibility can afford another poorly organized piece of literature.  Our program is supposed to be a set of spiritual principles, written so simplythat we can follow them in our daily lives (which become healthy habits with consistent repetition, even for chemically imbalanced newcomers).   Does the Sponsorship Book, changing the page numbers in the 6th Edition of the Basic Text  or even the Step Working Guides (useful only if your sponsor happens to have a 12th degree blackbelt in NA) really promote the consistent application of our recovery program?   Personally, I don't think we have published a decent book since IWHW and I'd like to see that change but I'm concerned that's not going to happen.

Why can't we just give this Book a title that's actually the 3rd part of our message (A New Way to Live) and actually organize it around our program of simply written spiritual principles, so that it can be used as an expanded, yet simple and effective guide for our New Way to Live, instead of a moshpit of poorly organized "experiences"?   At one time, I strongly advocated that NA just try writing an IP on the "essential" spiritual principle of "openmindedness", as a method of promoting both clarity and unity of purpose.   Zero interest expressed in any literature on that topic.   I've often wondered why our program of spiritual principles doesn't even list them anywhere, such as in an IP or book of NA Spiritual Principles"?   

When did our perception of reality and focus get so blurred that we decided that we could "afford" babysitters on our bulletin boards, censored participation, placing appearance before substance, discussions about topics like old timer meetings, clarity statements and clean time requirements for convention speakers, and similar nonsense, while drug addicts BY THE 1000's keep visiting our rooms, leaving, dying and we give the public the old excuse "well, i guess they just didn't want what we had to offer".   Well maybe more of them would if we were actually PRACTICING a program of spiritual principles in a simple manner they could understand, instead of a confusing (it takes 10 years to understand this program) and conflicting mess of psuedo intellectual masturbation of each others egos. 

I identified with the Basic Text, IWHW, and the JFT meditation book when I first got here and still do today; (particularly IWHW).   Despite our world wide growth, I believe our Fellowship really NEEDS something that will help pull us all together, and since spiritual principles are never in conflict, perhaps we need to really focus our efforts in that direction.   I believe this book needs to have AT LEAST the same amount of organizational clarity and quality as IWHW, if not more, before we even think about releasing it.

Unfortunately, it appears that this train has already left the station and is unlikely to shift direction in any significant way.   I guess all I really want to do is remind everyone that lives are lost when we lose our focus and to remember that's the real price of complacency.

[jimk]

Could you, or have you, Trigg, taken your concerns to your home group, your Area Service Committee, Your Region Service Committee for their consideration?

Do you have agreement of a number others that this project is mis-directed?
The process for addressing this concern is in place. IF those members in your Region agree with you then your RCM can show other RCMs and WB that there is significant concern.

Have you considered this process? Or are you merely engaged in your own intellectual masturbation? Join the committee process.

I am glad the online forums have control over posts that comes from addicts who are too willing to badmouth others. I was hopeing that the post directed to Bob to "get a real job" would be deleted because of the possible escalation of disrespect that tone of communication can bring. That post has not been deleted by anyone. It's attitude stands for all to read. I invite you Trigg to delete it, or edit it.

We can disagree and debate without nastyness. Group conscience CAN direct this WB. Minority Opinion has it's Stage at NA. I have considered these complaints that I have read on this Forum about this project and have brought awareness of those concerns to my home group and my ASC.

If we want others to take us seriously however we will need to be respectful. I also report to my fellows in my Area about the nastyness and angry attitudes that I read.

jimk
Watertown NA
East River Area
South Dakota Region

[trigg]

well, i guess the really important thing isn't the opinion i expressed but rather the fact that i didn't bow down and present it in a way consistent with your personal idea of proper NA protocol, politeness and the politically correct NA fashion of the day.   btw, i don't know bob and doubt that he's going to relapse over my flippant response to unnecessary discussion monitoring.   i think its pretty clear i don't like the spirit of free exchange of ideas between NA members being stifled and characterized as a "service" to NA.

my idea is simply to organize the book around an outline of spiritual principles in an effort to enhance the utility of the publication as a tool to help save lives.   that's well within the parameters of the topic and i don't know why delivering it with a dash of salt would get your panties in such a wad.   i'm sure there are plenty of people who agree with you, i'm just not one of them.   keep coming back, we need you too.

ps:   my point is simply to question whether we have our focus in the right place with this book.  personally, i don't think so and i'm concerned that its going to be another example of poor management of limited resources.   i found a quote that sums up my perspective on this fairly accurately and hope its helpful:

For example, despite the very significant and positive accomplishments of environmental agencies like the Sierra Club, Greenpeace and many others have made especially in the United States with new environmental regulations, environmentally, the planet is dying. While legal battles were won in the courts, our species is losing the environmental war. The same multinational corporations, that know that it is illegal to pollute in countries like the US, have shifted their investments to other countries like China that do not have proper environmental regulations. Societies can not pass enough laws, hire enough regulators, policemen or prosecutors, or impose enough fines or file enough law suits or imprison enough violators to save the environment. The key question to the spiritual activist is, “What is fundamentally wrong with society such that we need environmental regulations to force people to not pollute?” The spiritual activist would seek to heal the problem at the core level of understanding about life for each human being. The ultimate goal would be bring about positive change that is sustainable without the need for physical force to enforce the chance. This is viewed as a waste of energy and resources that could be used more productively to support the sustainable solution.

[jimk]

I understand your point. Reading my earlier response reveals that.

When you post in abusive ways it opens the door for others to post in abusive (sick) ways. It distracts from the very points you claim to be attempting to make.

I don't accept your bully tactics. But as I said before... I read your concerns and I carry them into the process. But not until I weed through the adolesent bull shit. It is not needed.

jimk

[Andale]

I'm trying to get through to the point of the argument too, Trigg, because I don't think we're actually very far apart. But it is hard to understand sometimes through the emotion. I like that title, "a new way of life..."

And I'm wondering - is the issue about the structure of the book - that it's broken up into areas where we apply the principles, rather than broken up by principles themselves? Or is it a concern that the text won't focus enough on principles within the current structure?
I'm thinking on the one hand that a book with chapters on, say, Honesty, Prudence, Willingness, Humility - would be interesting, it would be differently limited. I rarely get to practice one principle at a time in real life...

There's a story in the 6th ed about a guy who uses what he learns about the 1st tradition to try again at participating in his marriage. Unity is a part of that story, but so is willingness, openmindedness, humility... among others. If we're talking about practicing principles in all areas of our lives, I don't think we can talk about practicing one at a time. At least, not in a way that would be very useful. But this book certainly should talk about principles, and what it means to put them into action in whatever way we do that.

If that's the only way to imagine this book that could make it acceptable to you, you might be right - a total reorganization is unlikely now. But if making the practice of principles central, and writing about it in a way that we can all understand - if that's the goal, we might actually get there.

[trigg]

My general point was that the book would be more useful if it is organized around an outline of spiritual principles.   I'm sure there would be several ways to accomplish that, but the most natural would seem to follow the "introduction" already in our literature, such as "our program is a set of spiritual principles written so simply that we can follow them in our daily lives".    i think most people would agree that the set of principles being referenced are those embodied in the 12Steps.   and the 3rd and final part of our message is that we "find a new way to live" without drugs, presumably by applying the principles of the Steps in our lives.  so this is our book of experiences following this new way to live.

one very basic way might be to just use the 12Steps as headings and discuss how the spiritual principles "of each step" have applied in a variety of different areas of our lives.    i realize that this follows the organization of the Basic Text and IWHW, but it doesn't have to be a carbon copy and repetition has served us well.   one "illustration" of how our experiences could be organized in this manner, using Chapter One and Two as examples:

I.  Step One :  Honesty, Awareness & Acceptance, _____, _______

A.  Our Physical Health
B.  Our Mental and Emotional Health
C.  Our Family Relationships
D.  Our Participation in NA
E.  Our Employment and Social Relationships Outside NA
 
II.  Step Two:  Openmindedness, Patience, Humility, _____, _______

A.  Our own Recovery
B.  The Recovery Beliefs and Practices of other NA Members
C.  Different Social, Religious and Sexual Orientation Beliefs Among NA Members
D.  Our Relationships with members of other Recovery Fellowships
E.  Our Relationships with _____
D.  Our Relationships with _____

and so on, Step 12 could be random spiritual principles and experiences that didn't fit under any of the other step,chapter headings very well. (or experiences that combine a number of different step principles together)

the outline would not have to be nearly as specific or "rigid" as the example i provided, i think the real value is in just having a recognizable outline so that the book has a sense of "direction and purpose".

personally, its very odd for a "NAthing goes" "take what you need and leave the rest" retired drug addict like me to suggest a need for a more organized and direct approach, but i have a very strong feeling that our experiences would be much more powerful and useful if presented in such a structured and "familiar" way.

ps:  don't sweat your perm out jimk, lol

[jimk]

Could you, or have you, Trigg, taken your concerns to your home group, your Area Service Committee, Your Region Service Committee for their consideration?

Do you have agreement of a number others that this project is mis-directed?
The process for addressing this concern is in place. IF those members in your Region agree with you then your RCM can show other RCMs and WB that there is significant concern.

Have you considered this process?

I was actually asking these questions that I posted in my original reply because I am interested in the ideas you present getting a real chance at getting to the discussion at the next conference at world.

I do not expect your ideas to get much traction if this forum is the only place you express them. This forum does not have the sway that the committee process has. That process starts at the home group and moves through the Area, the Region and from Region to Region through Zonal.

Do you have one other member that agrees with you that your ideas are better for NA than this current project? Do enough members of your home group agree with you? Will your GSR take your idea to the Area and the CAR workshops?

If you really have evidence that this project is wrong for NA then is it not best to bring that to the committee process and give it a real chance? Is it not you duty to bring it?


jimk

[trigg]

i'd rather not personalize the discussion by responding to your direct questions jimk.   i chose to express a heart felt feeling in a forum where i thought it could be of some benefit.   the fact that it might be presented differently or more effectively in a different forum, by someone else, at another time, doesn't change the essential nature of the expression.   i have no apologies or any personal aspersions to cast.  "NA members are encouraged to develop their own opinions and to express those opinions as they see fit."  IWHW p 198.   i will, however, rephrase and hopefully clarify them further.

namely, the "living clean" title implies an association with AA's "living sober" book and is hardly original.  i'll never believe that of all the possible linguistic options on planet earth, this is the very best title NA can come up with.  we constantly speak of being independent and of not giving any implicit endorsement of other fellowships or organizations, but when we are presented with a real life situation, what do we want to do?  we apparently want to cling in desperation to something that will be a permanent memorial to our inability to let go of our perpetual problems, that we love to hate, whine about for decades, but never can let go of when the opportunity to do so is presented.   in other words, a monument to our addiction to having chronic problems.  call it "a new way to live" call it "we do recover" or 1000 other options that don't have the "AA Taint" of the "living clean" title, and for other common sense and "tradition" based reasons that have already been provided by others under other topic headings.

second, just compare the "working outline" we are currently using to the rough draft of the suggested "spiritual principle" outline and trust your intuition.   does one give the material more focus, direction and purpose than the other?   does one seem more natural and familiar?   does one seem to follow the discussion of spiritual principles in IWHW more so than does the other?   Does Tradition 5 apply here?  "Tradition Five defines the focus of Narcotics Anonymous.   This focus also helps to ensure our survival as a fellowship.....This concentrated focus protects the integrity of our fellowship."

could this book carry the NA message more clearly with one outline or the other?   just be honest with yourselves, answer with your heart not your head if possible and peace out jimk.

[jimk]

All good points for dicussion at a CAR workshop.

I am genuinly serious about the points I am making about this. Please bring your points to a larger audience. This forum is not visible to those who have not signed on to it.

jimk

[trigg]

Thanks Jim.    I would if I could but I can't right now, and it seems as if this book is on an expedited development path, so if anyone believes the points are important enough to carry into a more effective venue and are in a position to make that happen, it would be an appreciated service effort.   Both points really don't seek to change the "content" of what has been submitted, but instead just "title and format" the content in a way that expresses the NA message as clearly as possible.

ps:  I found this quote under the living clean vs living sober topic discussion, and thought it might be useful here also:

Briefly...

The original Living Clean book was received from the Philly Fellowship in the Fall of 1982. You had to have 5+ years to write on it. They turned it over to NA unconditionally during the second World Lit workshop on It Works.(in Philly)...I was there.
It follows the same basic format as AA's Living Sober. It is a book for those who are new to recovery and the purpose was to explain to the newcommer various terms and concepts that are basic to the recovery process.
One day at a time...what is a sponsor...the importance of meetings...what is 'working the Steps"? ...what is a Higher Power...turn it over...change people/places...H.A.L.T....

It was filled with AA terms...so you could make a decent argument that it "basically is a copy of Living Sober revised for NA". It was not acceptable as a working draft but conceptually...the format...was good.

Now...it was not their intent (Philly) to plagerize Living Sober but to write an NA book for the newcommer following the same format. Remember...we are not writers but come from various backgrounds...carpenters, convicts......you get the picture.  We did our best with what we had at the time in the sincere desire "that no addict seeking recovery need ever die".
The WLC recognized the need for this type of book and the World Lit committe had it on their action item priority list through the '80's. How it morphed into Living Clean the Journey continues I don't know. I do believe in my heart that we need this kind of book for the newcommer because they are overwelmed by a mountain of new terms and concepts...almost a foreign language... when they first come to NA. They want to know what to do to stay clean and a simple, short book covering these bases would be very helpfull.

This Living Clean book is entirely different from the Living Clean the Journey Continues project. Two very different purposes and audiences, although every NA member, regardless of clean time,  can't lose by reviewing and staying in the basics (original Living Clean).

[jimk]

My reasoning for bringing these complaints (such as those in the thread titled "Do We Really Need Another Book?) to the current CAR workshops is because this project is already on the Conference Agenda for this upcoming Conference. I believe that the time is ripe (maybe even past for those Regions who have already completed their CAR workshops and Region Service conferences. (My Region met last week but my Area did not get a chance to respond the the items due to weather) We will re-schedule an Area meeting soon.

I will ask some of the questions at that assembly that I have read here. I believe that the groups need control of decisions via the conference process. But, my Area and my Region are not even as populated as this Forum. The members of this forum are at 649. I doubt if we have half that number in our whole Region. But then each Region gets the same number of Delegates.

If a Region determines that it believes that the brakes need to be put on this project and it is not communicated to the World Service Conference this year, then we have to get it put on the next agenda. Another hurdle and another two years.

Thus my unwillingness to chill about it right now. Give it a couple weeks and I will move on. As it is I sleep well at night and I use the BT and the IWHW and the SWG in my program and at my meetings. If I am convinced that this project is wrong then I will not likely purchase it.

I am not yet convinced that the project is wrong. I am convinced that that question needs a good looking at by the committee process. That is where I try allow my convincing to take place. And even when I am not in agreement with the group conscience I trust the process and accept the decisions of the groups.

My passion to push you and others into this committee process comes from seeing too many members and groups shrug off the committe process but are all to willing to complain about decisions that have been made.

If we want NA Lit written by addicts for addicts then we need more involvement by as many informed addicts as possible. This Forum gets members involved in the project but not in the committee process. I believe we need both.

MAN! That jimk is a frickin jabberbox!

[pwny]

wow, once I got through what seemed to be simply angry words, I hear what you are saying Trigg, and wish that I had been signed on to this in time to bring some of the issues you raise to our CAR workshops. Specifically, I appreciate the outline suggestions you made, as well as the question of the title. I will call our RD tomorrow and ask him what's next here, or if it's too late for our region to discuss.

Thanks to you each for working this out--what a wonderful example of how we can learn to practice the principles of honesty, open-mindednes and willingness to work through conflict towards spiritual resolution.

[trigg]

jabberbox jim has reminded me that its never too late to do something the right way, so i'm going to call our RCM and see what the next right step would be.  touche mi amigo.

[jimk]

See
Seen your   

[BobJ]

The following is offered for informational purposes.

It is important to keep in mind that the outline was sent out for fellowship review and input 1 June – 15 Sept 2009.  The outline was revised as a result of that process and the drafting has been moving forward based on the currently existing outline.

As reported in the Conference Agenda Report, page 26:

Work This Cycle
After WSC 2008, we formed a workgroup comprised of ten members representing a wide cross section of experience, cleantime, and geography. By the time the WSC 2010 is in session, the workgroup will have met eight times. Our initial meetings helped to draft the outline for the book and established the topics to be covered in each of the chapters. Since then we have gotten to work drafting the chapters, and we are excited about the results so far. Those of you who have seen the outline know that we hope to cover many topics that have been on the fellowship “wish list” for literature for a long time: relationships with others, our own relationship with success, aging, and the journey of recovery.

In June 2009 we released the outline, Chapter One, and Chapter Two for fellowship review and input for 90 days. We distributed more than 1,100 copies of the drafts (830 downloads and 367 mailed), and we received 103 responses ranging from word choices (change “but” to “and”) to conceptual concerns regarding the use of jokes or anecdotes within the material. We belatedly realized that our presentation of the outline was potentially misleading to some people—we intended it as a list of topics to be covered in each chapter, not necessarily in order. Even so, the input we received was useful, and we have reorganized the chapters as a result. Thank you to those who took the time and energy to read the material and give input. You have helped to make a book that is more reflective of us.